Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970122063017.00922dd0@ilhawaii.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:32:30 -1000 From: Jay Hanson <mailto:jhanson@ILHAWAII.NET> Subject: Re: Entropy or Thermodynamics or Economics? To: Multiple recipients of list DEVEL-L <mailto:DEVEL-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
At 12:42 PM 1/21/97 -0500, Wilbur wrote:>>Once again, for the umpteenth time, there are no known exceptions
>> to the Laws of Thermodynamics. The economy can no more repeal
>> the Laws of Thermodynamics than it can repeal the Law of Gravity.
>
>But the economy as a system is not a thermodynamic system, it's an economic
>system.
>So your assertion doesn't make any sense.
All physical systems are subject to the laws to thermodynamics. Period. There are no exceptions. The economic system is a physical system. Thus, the economic system is subject to the laws of thermodynamics. Period.
>So you admit somehow that that earth is getting hotter, as in more heat,
>less entropy. Against the "Second Law of Thermodynamics". Boy this
>Economics stuff
>must be working!
You misunderstand systems analysis. Systems boundaries are arbitrary, nature does not come with dotted lines. We draw those lines depending on which system we wish to analyze.
Interacting, interrelated, or interdependent parts combine to form a "system." A system exhibits "emergent properties" that are different from the properties of the individual parts. Alone, the individual parts of a bicycle do not exhibit the property of a bicycle (people transporter). The property of a bicycle emerges once the parts are in their proper places and interacting together.
Whether or not the whole earth system is exhibiting the emergent property of "decreasing entropy" (heating up) says nothing about the entropy in the various earth subsystems.
For example, the entropy of a broken dinner-plate subsystem is greater than the same plate unbroken. Period. It doesn't make any difference whether entropy in the whole earth system is increasing or decreasing. Moreover, the increase in local entropy has changed the emergent property of the dinner-plate subsystem so that it is no longer functional.
Following the broken dinner-plate subsystem, the economy is increasing entropy in earth subsystems and changing the emergent properties of our life-support subsystem so that in 35 years, it too may no longer be functional.
Here is a better hypothetical example:
Imagine an economic subsystem in your automobile garage with the door closed. Your economy operates a gas-burning press. As your press runs, the entropy of gas subsystem INCREASES as it burns. If your economic subsystem were to continue, at some point the increasing entropy in the gas subsystem will change the emergent properties of your local life-support subsystem so that it no longer supports your life.
It doesn't make any difference if the entropy of the whole garage system has DECREASED (say, you have an electric heater running), your economic system has increased entropy and it has killed you. Likewise, ALL economic activity INCREASES ENTROPY in local earth subsystems and is killing us.
Finally, if the net entropy of the whole earth is decreasing (heating up), then it is because the economy has increased entropy in earth life-support subsystems to the point where they are no longer capable of functioning in a way to maintain life as we know it.
>less entropy. Against the "Second Law of Thermodynamics". Boy this
>Economics stuff
>must be working!
It sure is. It's working to end life as we know it.
Jay