Message-ID: <x$6erKApOVkzEwA8@entebbe.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:49:13 +0100 From: cherbert <mailto:cherbert@ENTEBBE.DEMON.CO.UK> Subject: Re: average American's perception of the US role in the 1st To: mailto:DEVEL-L@AMERICAN.EDU
Hi Wilbur, well clearly you didn't like my answer:-)>>>
>>Wilbur writes:
>>>I've come to an answer to this sort of question. But I think you may not
>>>like the answer.
>>>
>>>Individual Empowerment.
>>>
>>But how do we express our individual empowerment. By our actions in the
>>social world - there is nowhere else to express ourselves. And how do
>>we gain individual empowerment - by interaction in the social world. So
>>we are simultaneously individual and social beings, and individual
>>empowerment - if it is to be based on human realities - must include the
>>recognition that we are also social beings.
>
>Yeah, so?
Well I think I went on to expound why I wanted to make that point in the next paragraph. >
>>A lesson that we have had to learn from the environmental world is that
>>it too is interconnected. So none of us can actually escape from our
>>destiny being tied in to the destiny of everyone else on the planet. We
>>can ignore that reality, but it is becoming increasingly difficult to
>>hide from.
>
>I'm not interconnected to you in any way that you can define what is good
>for me. I'm responsible for myself.
Well, I expect that we both buy things from the same corporations who are exploiting labour and destroying the environment. Every time you breathe out you are contributing to the same air I breathe, and if you decide to put a nuclear power station in your back garden and it leaks, it could kill me. I never made a suggestion that this inteconnectedness meant I could define what was good for you. However, I suggest that in our decision making, we need to consider that our actions always have reactions upon others, and it is precisely this lack of responsibility for the wellbeing of all above the well being of the individual, company, government, nation etc., that has led to many of the problems the world has, including the post colonial ones that were being discussed on this group.>
>No, that every human is unequal is a better place to start. We have the
>right to be unequal, we have the right to be individuals, we have the right
>to not be treated as some non-individual unit in a great made up model of
>reality.
Well, we will just have to agree to disagree here. I have a unique human consciousness that only belongs to me and is not open to anybody else's scrutiny or understanding, except to the extent that I choose to share it, or that they can observe it in my actions. But my values, attitudes and beliefs were formed by my life experiences in interaction with all the human beings with whom I came into contact, and many, eg Hitler,etc., that I never ever met. That's how we all have different cultural and social values and behaviours - because we inherited them from our social environment. We had a choice of course, in whether we responded negatively or positively, or even ignored the information that we were being given from birth, and we all end up with unique patterns because our experiences are different. Much of what we inherit from the social realm we remain totally oblivious too. We think it is the result of nature, like for instance the supposed superiority of men over women, white races over black races, when actually it was purely the result of social nurture. But overall we actually have more similarity than difference, and ultimately what we share with every other human is precisely being human. With several billion of us on this planet, that hardly makes any of us unique at the purely physical level. What does lead to the gross inequities between human beings is lack of opportunity and education. >
>Baloney, I'm not a member of "one" human family. There are millions of
>families, and they are all different, and the ideas of justice are different
>from family to family, person to person. We are not all one, we are
>billions. We are not equal, we are not the same. We are individuals and
>deserve to not even be classified as "We". I am an individual. You don't
>know who I am, and your generalizations don't mean that anything that you
>come up with is correct for "all" of the individuals on the planet. Indeed,
>I challenge your ego to explain why you think that you can speak for me.
Wilbur, I am still not understanding your problem here. I recognise that there are forms of psychology that promulgate that human beings should never refer to humanity as "we". But overall, if I choose to do this, because I believe we are all one human family - and facts do prove this - then I have as much right to talk about "we" as you have to stress the individual "I". I just happen to believe that it is the stressing of the "I" in western culture that has led to many of its problems. Too much stress on rights without consideration of responsibilities. I am sorry that you do not believe that human beings are equal. You promoted the idea of individual empowerment. Surely this must rest on the basis that every human being has the equal right to the best conditions to develop his/her unique individuality in cooperation with every other human being. >
>>Then the operating structures of society must reflect this principle.
>>It used to be called utopianism - but looking at recent posts on local
>>commons, is there any alternative?
>
>Did you ever hear of the "Tower of Babel?"
Yeah - another of those human accidents. All we need to do to fix this one is agree on an international auxiliary language.>If you have a problem pushing education in Pakistan, perhaps you aren't
>teaching them something that is important and provides any real benefit to
>them. Perhaps you need to look at your arrogance and realize that they know
>what they need to learn. Or perhaps you haven't realized that the main
>purpose of mass education isn't to develope intellegence or clear thinking
>but mainly to normalize the populations experience?
You have confused two posters here, I am not involved in education in Pakistan. I do however teach in a British college - I hope the end result of my course is that my students are individually empowered to act confidently in a better understood social world. Of course, as it is a reciprocal process, the person who benefits most is myself, from constantly being in an environment where there is a sharing of views in a supportive and courteous atmosphere.
-- cherbert