Message-Id: <200008310544.WAA23076@dns.ccit.arizona.edu> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:44:57 +1000 From: Jennifer Brasher <mailto:j.brasher@MAILBOX.GU.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: EmbARK/LUNA Insight To: mailto:IMAGELIB@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
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Thanks, this addresses part of my question.
1. So it does LAN/WAN etc., well good, that makes sense. Where do you=20
get your info from in the site? I need it in concrete.
The web site info for Luna is ambiguous to me, it definitely states=20
it is an interface ".......for the Internet.........", it didn't=20
seem to clarify the above at all for me ( dummy that I am).
http://ww.luna-imaging.com/ Insight Software Systems See : What=20
is insight?
" Luna Imaging's new generation of Insight client/server software=20
allows organizations to manage, access, and use image collections on=20
the Internet."
This really made it seem purpose-built for web display.
(At one stage one had to really change a Filemaker layout for web=20
publishing back in the "auld days" and even with the new version=20
which can use original database layouts, I have not yet converted=20
mine to web and have no practical experience of the problems... so I=20
did perceive there may be a difference on this basis. Web and=20
internet are sprinkled liberally about in the blurb and no LAN, WAN=20
seem to feature at all.)
2. It also states it will link to non-relational databases, as well=20
as the relational ones you mentioned below - Filemaker emulates=20
relational, and I'm not sure what Access does now.
"Luna also can work with non-relational databases with defined=20
programming interfaces"
I had worked out Luna was a front end. I have a text database, and I=20
can choose to migrate it to a fully integrated database and front end=20
like EmbARK OR I can keep it in Filemaker and front it with LUNA. I=20
do know some people say they have better results fronting it on=20
Access. So the choice is there for me..... we're a Mac based place=20
with some PC as well, and multi campus we are a mixed bag.
Yes, it is an apples and oranges kind of question, but in my context=20
it makes sense.
>Good Day,
>
>If I may, I would like to clarify a few items discussed in the
>Insight/EmbARK comparison.
>
>=20 >1. a. From specs Luna Insight seems to be only for internet interface
>=20 >access/ it is a front end only to whatever database you have at the
>=20 >rear.
>=20 >"Luna Imaging's new generation of Insight client/server software
>=20 >allows organizations to manage, access and use image collections over
>=20 >the internet."
>=20 >
>=20 >b. Embark is a relational database plus a front end that is dual
>=20 >purpose, it offers network ( Public Access Mode) and internet
>=20 >networking display ( using EmbARK Web Kiosk). Could be an advantage
>=20 >if you don't want to traffic via the internet for local needs
>=20 >especially when internet traffic is heavier.
>
>Insight is an application server that uses a relational database (eg.
>Sybase, Oracle , MSSQL, MSAccess) to store descriptive and image metadata.
>Insight=EDs client/server architecture communicates over TCP/IP allowing us=
e
>within a LAN, WAN, or the Internet. Regarding the user-interface comments,
>apples and oranges were brought to the table. The Insight client interface=
s
>were designed based on the way scholars use images. Users may perform
>searches, organize and group images, view textual information about them,
>and work with high-resolution images. Insight is not generally used as a
>data entry application, although it does provide such a data entry module.
>Institutions typically use collection management software for data entry an=
d
>Insight for image and text display. Luna can create customized data entry
>modules to accommodate complex relational structures, if need be. Embark
>plays the role as a collection management software. As stated on their web
>site, Embark was =ECdesigned for =D6 individuals who need to track all asp=
ects
>of an object's history and use, including acquisitions, authorities,
>commentary, conservations, exhibitions, insurance, loans, locations, =D6=EE
>Embark can provide limited functionality and access to content. Insight,
>however, is the solution to the larger problem; providing access to content
>that resides in various repositories and stored in various methods. Insigh=
t
>=EBs next release (Oct 2000) will allow users to search across multiple
>heterogeneous databases and view the data in the standard they are most
>familiar with. Insight utilizes the Getty Standards Crosswalk for the
>searching and display of content cataloged and stored in various standards.
>
>
>=20 >2.Which is easier to use with the Filemaker ( Macintosh) database we
>=20 >already have; EmbARK or Insight ( LUNA)?
>=20 >
>=20 >****LUNA
>=20 > From the listserv talk I gain the impression LUNA Insight is more
>=20 >problematic initially, as I'd have to massage it through Microsoft
>=20 >Access/ was that Susan Jane talking about that? LUNA maintains it
>=20 >talks to non-relational databases, as well as, SQL server, Sybase
>=20 >and Oracle.
>=20 >
>=20 > (I had some problems with data imported across from Access to
>=20 >Filemaker, as Access data decided to do funny little ditto quotation
>=20 >marks for some data in artist and title fields mainly after import,
>=20 >which entails clean up work.)
>=20 >
>=20 >I'd rather a software where it imported straight from A to B.
>
>=20 >****EmbARK
>=20 >EmbARK has comprehensive import and export capabilities. Its import
>=20 >functions allow users to do their own data conversions. I've been
>=20 >told I'd have no problems with Filemaker.
>
>=20 >Is it flexible for local programming ( I have some 4th Dimension
>=20 >experience from years ago when we purchased an abridged version, so
>=20 >EmbARK seems more familiar).
>
>=20 >For those institutions running a mixed environment , the utilty 4D
>=20 >TRANSPORTER converts Macintosh datafiles to be used on a Windows NT
>=20 >server, or vice versa.
>
>=20 >From a data conversion stand-point , FileMaker Pro content must be ex=
ported
>to a Delimited Text file, then imported into a relational database, such as
>MSAccess, Oracle, etc. The data import processes from FileMaker Pro are
>identical between Insight and EmbARK.. Insight=EDs data import and export
>procedures occur within the Relational Database Management System (i.e.
>Oracle Enterprise Manager). As a result, Insight administrators have a hos=
t
>of import, update, export, etc. interfaces they can use for such procedures=
=2E
>The =ECditto quotation marks=EE noted above, served as text delimiter and c=
ould
>have been removed during the export process by simply changing the
>Text-Delimiter option to =ECNone.=EE
>
>=20 >3. Cost???????
>
>Insight package and pricing information can be found on the Luna Imaging we=
b
>site at http://www.luna-imaging.com/insight.html .
>
>=20 >4. Which has the best GUI.... Luna looks good... it says you can
>=20 >"move images", does this equate with my Mac concept of drag and
>=20 >drop.. it seems not, because you have to complete keyboard commands
>=20 >to move them.. this could be harder for users? How does EmbARK
>=20 >compare, it also looks good!!
>
>You be the judge, you can view the browser client at
>http://www.davidrumsey.com/ , or download and try the JVA version at
>http://www.luna-imaging.com/testdrive/testdrive.asp . Yes, the JVA version
>is drag-n-drop, just like the Mac. Also, no keyboard commands are needed t=
o
>create image groups.
>
>Thank you for the opportunity to clarify any potential misunderstandings.
>
>Take Care,
>Ryan Chute
>Systems Specialist
>Luna Imaging, Inc.
>310.452.8370
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: IMAGELIB [mailto:mailto:IMAGELIB@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of
>Jennifer Brasher
>Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 6:27 PM
>To: mailto:IMAGELIB@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>Subject: EmbARK/LUNA Insight
>
>
>Hi All,
>
>OK. PROBLEM - EXCUSE CROSS POSTINGS
>We have a Filemaker database here. We want to choose a front end GUI
>(graphic user interface) for LAN ( local area network server access
>for PC and MAC) and web ( internet) interface.
>
>I'll post this to the Filemaker, EmbARK, Imagelib lists as well.
>I'll also email EmbARK and LUNA.
>
>Interested in opinions, Oh great sages of VRA and all lists.
>
>1. a. From specs Luna Insight seems to be only for internet interface
>access/ it is a front end only to whatever database you have at the
>rear.
>"Luna Imaging's new generation of Insight client/server software
>allows organizations to manage, access and use image collections over
>the internet."
>=20 b. Embark is a relational database plus a front end that is dual
>purpose, it offers network ( Public Access Mode) and internet
>networking display ( using EmbARK Web Kiosk). Could be an advantage
>if you don't want to traffic via the internet for local needs
>especially when internet traffic is heavier.
>=20 **************************
>
>
>2.Which is easier to use with the Filemaker ( Macintosh) database we
>already have; EmbARK or Insight ( LUNA)?
>
>****LUNA
>=20 From the listserv talk I gain the impression LUNA Insight is more
>problematic initially, as I'd have to massage it through Microsoft
>Access/ was that Susan Jane talking about that? LUNA maintains it
>talks to non-relational databases, as well as, SQL server, Sybase
>and Oracle.
>
>(I had some problems with data imported across from Access to
>Filemaker, as Access data decided to do funny little ditto quotation
>marks for some data in artist and title fields mainly after import,
>which entails clean up work.)
>
>I'd rather a software where it imported straight from A to B.
>
>****EmbARK
>EmbARK has comprehensive import and export capabilities. Its import
>functions allow users to do their own data conversions. I've been
>told I'd have no problems with Filemaker.
>
>Is it flexible for local programming ( I have some 4th Dimension
>experience from years ago when we purchased an abridged version, so
>EmbARK seems more familiar).
>
>For those institutions running a mixed environment , the utilty 4D
>TRANSPORTER converts Macintosh datafiles to be used on a Windows NT
>server, or vice versa.
>
>3. Cost???????
>
>4. Which has the best GUI.... Luna looks good... it says you can
>"move images", does this equate with my Mac concept of drag and
>drop.. it seems not, because you have to complete keyboard commands
>to move them.. this could be harder for users? How does EmbARK
>compare, it also looks good!!
Keeping you informed.
"Nobody can become perfect by merely ceasing to act"
BHAGAVAD - GITA
Jennifer Brasher
Reference Librarian
QCA Image (Slide/Digital) Library Supervisor
Information Services
Griffith University Library
Queensland College of Art Library
Griffith University
PO Box 84 Morningside Q 4170
AUSTRALIA
Phone (61) 7 3875 3130
=46ax (61) 7 3875 3133
Email mailto:j.brasher@mailbox.gu.edu.au
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks, this addresses part of my question. =20
1. So it does LAN/WAN etc., well good, that makes sense. Where do you
get your info from in the site? I need it in concrete.
The web site info for Luna is ambiguous to me, it definitely states it
is an interface ".......for the Internet.........", it didn't seem to
clarify the above at all for me ( dummy that I am). =20
http://ww.luna-imaging.com/ Insight Software Systems See : What is
insight?
<italic>" Luna Imaging's new generation of Insight client/server
software allows organizations to manage, access, and use image
collections on the Internet."=20
</italic>This really made it seem purpose-built for web display.=20
(At one stage one had to really change a Filemaker layout for web
publishing back in the "auld days" and even with the new version which
can use original database layouts, I have not yet converted mine to
web and have no practical experience of the problems... so I did
perceive there may be a difference on this basis. Web and internet are
sprinkled liberally about in the blurb and no LAN, WAN seem to
feature at all.)=20
2. It also states it will link to non-relational databases, as well as
the relational ones you mentioned below - Filemaker emulates
relational, and I'm not sure what Access does now.=20
=20
<italic>"Luna also can work with non-relational databases with defined
programming interfaces"
</italic>I had worked out Luna was a front end. I have a text database,
and I can choose to migrate it to a fully integrated database and front
end like EmbARK OR I can keep it in Filemaker and front it with LUNA.
I do know some people say they have better results fronting it on
Access. So the choice is there for me..... we're a Mac based place
with some PC as well, and multi campus we are a mixed bag.=20
Yes, it is an apples and oranges kind of question, but in my context it
makes sense.=20
<excerpt>Good Day,
If I may, I would like to clarify a few items discussed in the
Insight/EmbARK comparison.
>1. a. From specs Luna Insight seems to be only for internet
interface
>access/ it is a front end only to whatever database you have at the
>rear.
>"Luna Imaging's new generation of Insight client/server software
>allows organizations to manage, access and use image collections over
>the internet."
>
>b. Embark is a relational database plus a front end that is dual
>purpose, it offers network ( Public Access Mode) and internet
>networking display ( using EmbARK Web Kiosk). Could be an advantage
>if you don't want to traffic via the internet for local needs
>especially when internet traffic is heavier.
Insight is an application server that uses a relational database (eg.
Sybase, Oracle , MSSQL, MSAccess) to store descriptive and image
metadata.
Insight=EDs client/server architecture communicates over TCP/IP allowing
use
within a LAN, WAN, or the Internet. Regarding the user-interface
comments,
apples and oranges were brought to the table. The Insight client
interfaces
were designed based on the way scholars use images. Users may perform
searches, organize and group images, view textual information about
them,
and work with high-resolution images. Insight is not generally used as
a
data entry application, although it does provide such a data entry
module.
Institutions typically use collection management software for data
entry and
Insight for image and text display. Luna can create customized data
entry
modules to accommodate complex relational structures, if need be.=20
Embark
plays the role as a collection management software. As stated on their
web
site, Embark was =ECdesigned for =D6 individuals who need to track all
aspects
of an object's history and use, including acquisitions, authorities,
commentary, conservations, exhibitions, insurance, loans, locations,
=D6=EE
Embark can provide limited functionality and access to content.=20
Insight,
however, is the solution to the larger problem; providing access to
content
that resides in various repositories and stored in various methods.=20
Insight
=EBs next release (Oct 2000) will allow users to search across multiple
heterogeneous databases and view the data in the standard they are
most
familiar with. Insight utilizes the Getty Standards Crosswalk for the
searching and display of content cataloged and stored in various
standards.
>2.Which is easier to use with the Filemaker ( Macintosh) database we
>already have; EmbARK or Insight ( LUNA)?
>
>****LUNA
> From the listserv talk I gain the impression LUNA Insight is more
>problematic initially, as I'd have to massage it through Microsoft
>Access/ was that Susan Jane talking about that? LUNA maintains it
>talks to non-relational databases, as well as, SQL server, Sybase
>and Oracle.
>
> (I had some problems with data imported across from Access to
>Filemaker, as Access data decided to do funny little ditto quotation
>marks for some data in artist and title fields mainly after import,
>which entails clean up work.)
>
>I'd rather a software where it imported straight from A to B.
>****EmbARK
>EmbARK has comprehensive import and export capabilities. Its import
>functions allow users to do their own data conversions. I've been
>told I'd have no problems with Filemaker.
>Is it flexible for local programming ( I have some 4th Dimension
>experience from years ago when we purchased an abridged version, so
>EmbARK seems more familiar).
>For those institutions running a mixed environment , the utilty 4D
>TRANSPORTER converts Macintosh datafiles to be used on a Windows NT
>server, or vice versa.
>From a data conversion stand-point , FileMaker Pro content must be
exported
to a Delimited Text file, then imported into a relational database,
such as
MSAccess, Oracle, etc. The data import processes from FileMaker Pro
are
identical between Insight and EmbARK.. Insight=EDs data import and
export
procedures occur within the Relational Database Management System
(i.e.
Oracle Enterprise Manager). As a result, Insight administrators have a
host
of import, update, export, etc. interfaces they can use for such
procedures.
The =ECditto quotation marks=EE noted above, served as text delimiter and
could
have been removed during the export process by simply changing the
Text-Delimiter option to =ECNone.=EE
>3. Cost???????
Insight package and pricing information can be found on the Luna
Imaging web
site at http://www.luna-imaging.com/insight.html .
>4. Which has the best GUI.... Luna looks good... it says you can
>"move images", does this equate with my Mac concept of drag and
>drop.. it seems not, because you have to complete keyboard commands
>to move them.. this could be harder for users? How does EmbARK
>compare, it also looks good!!
You be the judge, you can view the browser client at
http://www.davidrumsey.com/ , or download and try the JVA version at
http://www.luna-imaging.com/testdrive/testdrive.asp . Yes, the JVA
version
is drag-n-drop, just like the Mac. Also, no keyboard commands are
needed to
create image groups.
Thank you for the opportunity to clarify any potential
misunderstandings.
Take Care,
Ryan Chute
Systems Specialist
Luna Imaging, Inc.
310.452.8370
-----Original Message-----
=46rom: IMAGELIB [mailto:mailto:IMAGELIB@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of
Jennifer Brasher
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 6:27 PM
To: mailto:IMAGELIB@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: EmbARK/LUNA Insight
Hi All,
OK. PROBLEM - EXCUSE CROSS POSTINGS
We have a Filemaker database here. We want to choose a front end GUI
(graphic user interface) for LAN ( local area network server access
for PC and MAC) and web ( internet) interface.
I'll post this to the Filemaker, EmbARK, Imagelib lists as well.
I'll also email EmbARK and LUNA.
Interested in opinions, Oh great sages of VRA and all lists.
1. a. From specs Luna Insight seems to be only for internet interface
access/ it is a front end only to whatever database you have at the
rear.
"Luna Imaging's new generation of Insight client/server software
allows organizations to manage, access and use image collections over
the internet."
b. Embark is a relational database plus a front end that is dual
purpose, it offers network ( Public Access Mode) and internet
networking display ( using EmbARK Web Kiosk). Could be an advantage
if you don't want to traffic via the internet for local needs
especially when internet traffic is heavier.
**************************
2.Which is easier to use with the Filemaker ( Macintosh) database we
already have; EmbARK or Insight ( LUNA)?
****LUNA
From the listserv talk I gain the impression LUNA Insight is more
problematic initially, as I'd have to massage it through Microsoft
Access/ was that Susan Jane talking about that? LUNA maintains it
talks to non-relational databases, as well as, SQL server, Sybase
and Oracle.
(I had some problems with data imported across from Access to
=46ilemaker, as Access data decided to do funny little ditto quotation
marks for some data in artist and title fields mainly after import,
which entails clean up work.)
I'd rather a software where it imported straight from A to B.
****EmbARK
EmbARK has comprehensive import and export capabilities. Its import
functions allow users to do their own data conversions. I've been
told I'd have no problems with Filemaker.
Is it flexible for local programming ( I have some 4th Dimension
experience from years ago when we purchased an abridged version, so
EmbARK seems more familiar).
=46or those institutions running a mixed environment , the utilty 4D
TRANSPORTER converts Macintosh datafiles to be used on a Windows NT
server, or vice versa.
3. Cost???????
4. Which has the best GUI.... Luna looks good... it says you can
"move images", does this equate with my Mac concept of drag and
drop.. it seems not, because you have to complete keyboard commands
to move them.. this could be harder for users? How does EmbARK
compare, it also looks good!!
</excerpt>
Keeping you informed.=20
"Nobody can become perfect by merely ceasing to act"
BHAGAVAD - GITA
Jennifer Brasher
Reference Librarian
QCA Image (Slide/Digital) Library Supervisor
Information Services
Griffith University Library
Queensland College of Art Library
Griffith University
PO Box 84 Morningside Q 4170
AUSTRALIA
Phone (61) 7 3875 3130
=46ax (61) 7 3875 3133
Email mailto:j.brasher@mailbox.gu.edu.au
--============_-1244421797==_ma============--
</pre>
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