Message-Id: <199706042336.QAA285862@dns.ccit.arizona.edu> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:38:54 -0700 From: Richard Rinehart <mailto:rinehart@UCLINK2.BERKELEY.EDU> Subject: Re: database construction To: mailto:IMAGELIB@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Yes, this thread took a definite turn when the numbers of images was raised from 1200 (the original post from the Ontario Museum) to "millions" (another post); MS Access as an engine may not be able to handle over 500,000 well, but it's important to keep the technical issues distinct from the use issues.For instance, there are formats for records which are appropriate for describing museum objects (photographs) which may or may not be accompanied by images of the object (scans of a photo or painting) - then there are other ways which may be more appropriate for describing collections of *images*.
Image Databases used by stock photography houses, movie set-designers, and others might be appropriate for managing huge collections of *images* in the raw sense (meaning the original object and it's historical/aesthetic context are not that important), but if we go back to the original post - this person wanted to know how to catalog and make available a collection of museum objects (which happen to be photographs and only some of which will be accompanied by images - which in this case are illustrations of the original). So, I would add that image-databases (and home cooked Oracle databases) might be good for managing images, but museums need to look at systems appropriate (in terms of relations/fields/functions) for managing museum objects. Then there are systems for providing intellectual access to collections (including the EAD/SGML method mentioned here) which are very appropriate for museums.
So I would ask, "how does this database of images relate to our collection management system? how will the two need to talk to each other? What if we want to include information other than that about the image (such as biographical and historical information of importance to museum collections)? What system can handle the data structures developed in the professional field (museums, libraries, arts, sciences) as well as manage the technical bits of image files?"
I know you can take a raw database program and fit it to any institutional need by defining fields/relations, but when looking at off-the-shelf systems it's good to look at intended use factors in addition to the technical requirements/power ratios.
my two c :)
Richard Rinehart | Berkeley Art Museum/Pacific Film Archive Systems Manager & Education | University of California Technology Specialist | 2625 Durant, Berkeley, CA 94720-2250 mailto:rinehart@uclink2.berkeley.edu | http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/ & Board of Directors, Museum Computer Network, http://world.std.com/~mcn/
>Hi Steve, Thank you for your input. (See below)
>Steve Head <mailto:jshead@FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU> Wrote:
>|
>| hi,
>| I am very interested in your MS SQL/NT image management
>| setup.
>| We are in the process of setting one up also.
>| Maybe we could exchange info. Always happy to share........ and learn from
>others.
>|
>| Are you using blobs? No, I thought that an object oriented DBMS would be
>more efficient. But I am not closed to thoughts on this.......
>| What language are you using for the application? Visual Basic and a little
>later, Java (when learned)
>| Why are you moving to Oracle? This is to be the company database of the near
>future, and I must plan todays' projects to fit with tomorrows.
>|
>| Thanks
>| Steve Head
>| Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison School of Education
>|
>| ----------
>| > From: Patricia Bruce <mailto:PBruce@SWRI.EDU>
>| > To: mailto:IMAGELIB@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>| > Subject: Re: database construction
>| > Date: Monday, June 02, 1997 10:01 PM
>| >
>| > Thank you for your comments Mike. They are appreciated
>| and welcome. We
>| are
>| > working in new areas and hearing from others with
>| similar ideas, is
>| > reassuring.
>| >
>| > We are using MS SQL on a NT server and when installed,
>| Oracle. Access
>| > preparation included planned for the transition. I
>| appreciate and
>| relish
>| > suggestions, comments, advice, critical reviews and the
>| opportunity to
>| learn
>| > from others.
>| >
>| > Our Web-based catalog intends to provide full 3rd degree
>| searchable
>| cataloging
>| > information, a thumbnail of each image/digital design or
>| graphic, and a
>| > request-for-services input form. (reprints, brochures,
>| etc.)
>| > Account/charging, delivery, special instructions and
>| requested due date
>| is
>| > entered by our customers (in house). Account
>| information is transmitted
>| to
>| > the accounting department and order information to
>| photography and
>| publication
>| > departments.
>| >
>| > If anyone has seen such a system in operation or are
>| currently designing
>| one,
>| > I would enjoy and appreciate contact. Thank you!
>| > Patricia Bruce, Southwest Research Institute (nonprofit,
>| R&D), San
>| Antonio,
>| > Texas
>| > mailto:PBruce@swri.edu
>| > Mike Betz <mailto:betz@WLN.COM> Wrote:
>| > |
>| > | I would caution against using Access with "millions of
>| > | photographs". There
>| > | seems to be a limit around 500,000 where Access craps
>| out,
>| > | and the
>| > | database self-destructs. Also, at half a million rows,
>| > | queries can take up
>| > | to 20 minutes against non-indexed fields. For a
>| project
>| > | this size use a
>| > | real database, say MS SQL or Oracle.
>| > |
>| > | Mike Betz
>| > | mailto:betz@wln.com
>| > |
>| > |
>| > | On Mon, 2 Jun 1997, Patricia Bruce wrote:
>| > |
>| > | > Hello Katalin....I am doing the same thing here in
>| > | Texas, but with millions of
>| > | > photographs. I will be happy to correspond with you
>| via
>| > | E-mail, concerning
>| > | > any questions you may have. We also are using
>| Access,
>| > | 7.0 under Office 97,
>| > | > and will be planning our collection for in-house
>| cross
>| > | platform use as well as
>| > | > use on the Web. Good luck and welcome!
>| > | > Patricia Bruce
>| > | > Southwest Research Institute
>| > | > San Antonio, Texas
>| > | >
>| > | > Katalin Fur <mailto:katalinf@ROM.ON.CA> Wrote:
>| > | > |
>| > | > | Hello Everyone,
>| > | > |
>| > | > | I am an intern at the Royal Ontario Museum
>| and my
>| > | > | summer project
>| > | > | involves creating a finding aid for
>| item-level
>| > | > | description of 1200
>| > | > | archival photographs. A selection of these
>| will
>| > | be
>| > | > | digitized and the
>| > | > | finding aid will be available at our web
>| site.
>| > | It is
>| > | > | hoped that the
>| > | > | successful outcome of this initiative will
>| lead
>| > | to
>| > | > | the addition of
>| > | > | other finding aids from the collection. I
>| will
>| > | be
>| > | > | using MS Access and
>| > | > | would appreciate all advice concerning
>| > | appropriate
>| > | > | field designations.
>| > | > | Thanks in advance
>| > | > |
>| > | > | Kathy Fur (mailto:katalinf@rom.on.ca)
>| > | > |
>| > | >
>| > |
>|